All My Children Wear Fur Coats with Peggy Hoyt

Cat School - Julie Posluns

June 20, 2023 Julie Posluns Episode 14
All My Children Wear Fur Coats with Peggy Hoyt
Cat School - Julie Posluns
Show Notes Transcript

We are thrilled to introduce Julie Posluns, founder of Cat School on All My Children Wear Fur Coats hosted by Peggy Hoyt. She has embarked on a mission to transform training into a joyful, effortless, and enriching experience for both cats and their human companions. 

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Welcome to All My Children

Wear Fur Coats with Peggy Hoyt.

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Join your host, author, estate planning

attorney and animal advocate, Peggy Hoyt.

Hello, pet lovers.

Welcome to All My Children Wear Fur Coats.

I'm your host, Peggy Hoyt, and this show is brought

to you by the law offices of Hoyt and Brian,

where we create estate plans for pets and their people.

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Today we are fortunate to have

as our guest Julie Posluns.

She is the founder of Cat School.

Welcome, Julie.

Thank you so much.

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To get started today.

Well, I'm really excited to talk cats and we

will go from there, but I do want to

tell people a little bit about your background.

Julie is an applied animal behaviorist and the founder

of Cat School, a clicker training school for cats.

The Cat School mission is to make training a fun,

easy, and enriching experience for cats and their people.

You talk like I do, so we talk about

cats and their people or pets and their people. Right.

And I understand that you might

have started out training dogs.

Tell us about that.

So I actually started out I went to a training

school for dogs and then it wasn't good methods.

So when I came back, I ended up getting a puppy

who was very challenging, like biting skateboarders and lunging at kids,

and it just kind of threw me for a loop.

I had taken this training course and

didn't know how to help him.

So that was my introduction into clicker training.

And I found a book or someone recommended one

on clicker training and started working with him.

So I was starting to teach him how to

tolerate skateboarders, going by and stuff like that.

And then I ended up realizing how little

I knew about dogs and dog training and

decided to become a dog walker.

A friend encouraged me to instead of being a

trainer, which I had thought that was kind of

like my plan and why I went to school.

I ended up deciding to just get into dog walking, and

that was, like, the best thing for me because I got

to spend so much time with dogs, taking them to the

dog parks and learning about them and observing them.

And in the end, I loved it so much.

My dog walking business grew.

It was just like we had

sometimes 80 dogs on our roster.

Oh, my goodness.

It was insane, but so much fun.

I had just such a great time.

And I ended up going back to school to

do my Masters to study the interactions of dogs

because I was so interested in part of building

familiarity with them, why they were getting into aggressive

interactions, like all that stuff.

I was really, really interested in it.

So I went back to school to study dog interactions.

I did my thesis on dog interactions.

When I came back from my Masters, my business was still

running, but that's when I kind of was like, okay, I

think I've been doing this for ten to 15 years.

It's time for a new challenge.

That's always a good outcome

when you find new challenges.

And that new challenge turned up in the form of a cat.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

I was trying to figure out what was next, and then

I found a little kitten outside, and the rest is history.

So tell us about this kitten

and how he changed your life.

So I found this kitten outside.

He was under a porch, and I was just like I was

on the phone in my house and I heard a little bit

of crying and I went outside and anyway, brought him inside, cleaned

him up and proceeded to try to find him a home.

Because, of course, I had difficult dogs

and they weren't really great with cats.

We actually had a cat who lived upstairs, and I never

bothered to really do any training with them with cats.

It was just something area

that I hadn't really explored.

So I put him upstairs and tried to find him a new home.

Anyway, he was just adamant

about interacting with the dogs.

He would come down the stairs, they would

bark at him, he'd run back up.

He just did this over and over again until

eventually they were like, okay, he's not so bad.

And then that was when I realized that he could

probably live with them, that he could handle he could

handle them, and they were all bark and no bite,

and I wasn't nervous, and so I was like, okay,

well, I wonder if I could keep them.

And then he just started doing

more and more dog like things.

So at the time I was a dog person.

It was kind of like, divided in my house.

My husband was the cat person and took care

of the cat, and I was the dog person.

Took care of the dogs.

And so this little kitten was kind of bridging the gap

between that, and suddenly he was acting like a dog.

Good marriage counselor too, and he was

joining all the dog training sessions, and

he was just very interactive and stuff.

And that just started to get me kind of looking more

into cat training and not seeing a lot of resources.

I was kind of baffled by, like,

why is this cat, this kitten, so

interested in joining all our training sessions?

He's such a smart little learner.

He's, like, picking up all the same

skills, and he loves it so much.

But what was actually the most interesting thing that

I did was I went upstairs and I started

training the other cat, because I was like, okay,

if he loves it, maybe it's just him.

And I was so surprised at how much she loved it.

I also felt terrible at how little

enrichment she had been getting when there

was this huge opportunity for her.

Plus, she started coming downstairs because she

used to stay upstairs because of the

dogs, and suddenly she was more confident.

She had a reason to come downstairs

because she heard the training going on.

So it just literally changed everything in our house.

And I was just amazed by what a

great form of enrichment and activity it was

for indoor cats because they get so little.

So I just started working with both my cats.

In the end, I just had them both

upstairs, and we were doing tons of stuff.

Unfortunately, the older cat, Mackenzie, didn't live much longer, so I

only got to do a bit of work with her.

But during that time, I was able to see how

much she loved it and how much it benefited her.

And she wasn't really big into playing, so it

was perfect too, because I actually had a way

to bond and engage with her every day consistently.

Like, we had our little sessions, and she would come and

join in, and it was just a lot of fun.

So I know that people say that cats

can't be trained, and obviously that's not true.

You have proved that over and over again

to the point where you created cat school. Yes.

So now everybody who's listening, your

cats can go to school.

How awesome is that?

Yes, they are highly trainable animals.

They really learn quickly.

I think most people are surprised when they see

how fast and how many skills they can learn.

So they're not stubborn or aloof.

They like the challenge and they

join in on the program. Exactly.

If you have the right reinforcements for them, I e.

Treats that they like, then it's a lot easier.

But I think the pieces are already there.

It's funny how the connections don't necessarily happen, but

we see our cats engaging in food puzzles, so

we know they like to problem solve.

We know they like to be busy.

We see them stealing food off the counter.

We see them looking for challenges and stuff.

So those are already the seeds of I

want challenges, I want to do more things.

I want to work for food really right.

I'll do anything to get that little morsel of food.

I'll jump on the counter, even

annoy you, to get that food.

So those seeds are already planted,

I think, with most cats.

But a lot of things we do a

lot of things differently with cats than dogs.

And it does prevent them from being trainable.

One of those things being leaving

their food out all day.

So anyone who leaves their food out all

day, it's going to affect how much your

cat wants to work for their food.

But you don't need to do training to understand that.

You need to do food puzzles, because

food puzzles will show you right away.

If your cat's not interested in food puzzles, that's a good

way to say, okay, what can I do to improve that?

Food puzzles are, I would say, one of

the easiest forms of enrichment for cats.

Putting their food, having them work for

a puzzle to find the treats.

And we want them to be able to do that.

So I always encourage people to kind of explore that and

get them working and then clicker training is a nice next

step to say, okay, my cat likes this activity.

They like working for food.

I have reinforcements they're interested in.

What else can I do with them?

So where can we find cat food puzzles?

Well, there's a great website called, and it has all different

puzzles and rates them on levels.

There's even like a research paper on all the benefits

of food puzzles, how they solve problems with cats, and

that foraging for food is a normal and natural behavior

for cats, and everyone should try to have some sort

of foraging in their cat's lives.

And it's a fantastic website.

I always send people there to encourage them.

What we don't want is to say to someone, go try this.

And I think this is very common with cats

and, oh, it didn't work, it didn't work.

So that's why I really like having

a comprehensive resource like that that says,

like, okay, try this and do this.

And it makes it really easy find a level

one puzzle, because what we don't want is someone

going on Amazon and buying a level three puzzle

and then their cat doesn't do it.

We want to make sure that they find something

that's really easy for their cat to do.

So I'm feeling a little bit bad because I

do leave my cat food down all the time.

I don't really make my cats work for their food.

I do make my forest kitty work for his

treats, but that's because he has to take medicine.

And so I give him the medicine and then I give

him a treat and that has worked out really well.

But now you've got me thinking that perhaps I

should reevaluate this approach and get some cat food

puzzles, and maybe my little Jenny girl will lose

some of the poundage that she has gained recently.

Yeah, I mean, it's a great way to slow them

down, to give them the mental enrichment that they need.

And it's also fun to see your cat

problem solving and trying these different puzzles, seeing

how you get to know them too, right?

Like, what kind of cat is your cat?

How long will they work at a puzzle?

If you have three or four cats, you're going

to see certain cats are like, they'll sit there

for hours and others might walk away.

So it's a fun way to

get to know their personality, too.

And then, of course, you can try the different

puzzles and see how they respond to them.

And also, like, trying different treats.

How do they respond to the different treats in them?

That's also a good way to getting to

know cats can be kind of fun.

What do we learn more about their personality when

we start to provide these challenges for them?

Well, so you mentioned clicker training.

Tell us what clicker training is

for people who might not know.

So clicker training is the method based on

positive reinforcement, which means that we reward or

we reinforce behaviors, and then those behaviors get

repeated because behaviors that get rewarded get repeated.

So that's the whole idea behind it.

So we create the environment that encourages

the cat to do the behavior.

Then the click is how we tell the

cat that's the behavior that we want.

So think about it this way.

If your cat gives you sits and gives you a high five

and you give them a treat, how will they know if you're

giving them a treat for the high five or the sit?

Because once you give them the treat,

their paws are already on the floor.

Maybe they've stood up or maybe they've walked away.

The only way for them to actually know which behavior they're

getting a treat for is if you add a marker.

And that's what a clicker is.

So if you're teaching high five, you click

the split second your cat raises their paw.

And that's what tells your cat that raising their

paw was the behavior that got that treat.

And once they know that raising their paw got the treat,

and they're going to start to do it again because they're

like, every time I raise my paw, I get a treat

and they're going to start to present their paw.

So we use the clickers like a bridge

in their learning to help them understand which

behavior they did that earned the reinforcement.

So do you give them verbal

cues as well, or hand signals?

What other kind of cues do you give them?

So I like with cats, I really like the signal stuff.

In the environment, especially in the beginning.

So what I'll say to people, one of the

easiest skills to start with is teaching the cat

to get a treat out of a cup.

So we put a little treat in the cup, the cat

gets the treat out of the cup, and then the cup

is the signal that this is what you have to do.

And so then that's one of the ways I can teach fist

bump or high five is the cat learns I have to put

my paw on the cup and then I can start raising the

cup and that's how I get them to raise their paw.

So I like using props, especially in the

beginning, but then we add in hand signals

and voice signals and stuff like that.

But it's definitely easier in the beginning if you have

a clear prop or like, I don't know if you're

familiar with a target stick, but a lot of times

we use a stick and the cat has to touch

their nose to the ball end of the stick.

So the stick is the cue for training.

And that keeps it really simple because with

hand signals are easier than voice signals.

But again, our hands are all moving around in the environment

a lot, so they might not stand out as well.

So when you have a prop, that can be really

effective in helping the cat see that this is a

training assignment, because they see the prop and they know

right away, okay, it's time for training.

Okay, I think it sounds like a blast.

So how do people learn more?

How do they sign up?

So one of the ways that people can get

started really easily is just going to our YouTube

channel, Cat School, and there's lots of lessons.

There's one that's kind of fun to

do, it says is your cat trainable.

And they can try the five skills

to see if their cat likes it.

And there's a video on treats where I talk about because

I think a lot of people will get stuck at that

first step and say, well, what treats should I be giving?

And that's not the right question because we actually

want to make sure if you use dry food,

your cat should work for dry food.

So that's number one.

Having to use exciting treats, it's not

really the path that we want.

We want people to be able to train with healthier food.

Just like with food puzzles, we want to

be able to use the cat's food.

So same with training.

I train my cat with wet food or a handful of dry food.

So I don't even really use.

Sometimes I'll use freeze dried

treats, which can be great.

But anyway, back to YouTube.

I'll have a few of these videos just to

help people kind of troubleshoot in the beginning so

they can figure out the first steps.

And the other thing that we have that makes it

easy for people to get started is a training kit.

So that includes a clicker, a target stick, and a

little booklet, a little quick start guide, and it's on

our website if they want to find it on our

website, which is just cat school co.

And you also have a leash walking kit? Yes.

Brings us to a whole nother thing.

Can't you teach a cat to walk on a leash?

Yes, you can.

And it's definitely getting more popular.

I'm pretty sure that Harness is like one of

the most popular search harness Training is like, one

of the most popular searches with cats right now.

It's just blowing up.

Like, so many people are interested in leash

walking them with cats, which is very exciting.

It means cats are going to be kept a lot safer, and

it's a great way for people to spend time with their cats.

It's different than walking a dog.

So that can be kind of nice, too.

It can be a bit more relaxing depending on where

you live, obviously, walking your cat, I mean, you're not

going to go jogging with your cat, right?

Yeah, a lot depends on the environment where you live.

But I think there is a way that most people

can do it and keep it kind of low key

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What do you tell people when they say, well,

if I start taking my cat outside, then he's

going to want to go outside all the time?

Yeah, that is definitely a common one.

Well, first I like people to try

it because that might not happen.

I think sometimes we jump so many steps

forward before we actually try something, and you

might find that your cat, like, my cat

will come in for dinner all the time. He loves food.

He loves his meals.

And then for me, it's just

about changing the chapter for him.

So again, if he comes in and I give him a

food puzzle, then it's like, okay, we're in food puzzle mode.

And then after that, he's forgotten about the leash walks

and stuff, and we've moved on, kind of thing.

Okay, so I say try it.

The other thing is a good question to kind

of ask is, should you be on a routine?

And like, dogs learn the routine.

They learn a window when their walks are and just

like they don't bother you for walks all day.

Why are we assuming that our cats will?

So one of the things that is good, having a

dog background is it allows you to kind of say,

why don't we say the same thing for dogs?

Why do we always come up with these

stories for cats, but not for dogs?

And so whenever there's a story like that, I try to

say, well, okay, that doesn't exist in the dog world.

Why is it existing in the cat world that

we can walk dogs twice a day and they're

not constantly harassing us to go outside?

But when it comes to cats, it is that way.

And is it that way because

they don't get enough enrichment inside?

All these things we can look at?

So it's not always that simple.

But is it going to be a problem first? We don't know.

And if it is, then we kind of go to, okay,

well, now it's a problem, how do we solve it?

And I would say the first thing we do is

when they come inside is try to change the chapter

so that they're kind of like, okay, that chapter is

done and this is a new chapter.

And now we're getting our meal.

We're getting a food puzzle.

We're playing and we've moved on.

Excellent advice.

Excellent advice.

So I have a cat that every time I open

the garage door, he wants to run out, but once

he gets out there, he's like immediately like, oh, no,

I didn't really mean to come out.

And then he runs right back in.

So maybe if he had a little more

walking opportunities, he would feel differently about that.

Yeah, it's hard to say what he's

scared of, why he's running back in.

Is it a fear thing?

That would be my first thing is I

try to understand, is it that he's fearful?

And then if it is because of that, how could we introduce

him to the environment slowly so he kind of gets used to

it in a way that he doesn't have to panic. Right.

That does happen with cats.

That happens a lot, where they kind of

do something and then they panic and they're

like, oh, I didn't mean that.

So I think we want them kind of not in

that panic mode, but more in being in kind of

control of their impulsive, which training obviously helps with that

too, because you could do, for example, what I would.

Probably say in that situation is to try to train your cat to

go in and out of the house in a much calmer way.

So we go out, we get a treat, we go back

in, we get a treat, we go out and you kind

of expand the zone a little bit from there.

So it's not really an emotional response,

but he's actually thinking about it.

Yeah, actually, I do want to go outside. Okay.

Yeah, I can go back inside.

I know how to get back inside,

so this isn't a big deal.

Yeah, very good advice.

Very good advice.

Well, my cats are lucky, I think they have a patio,

so they can spend a lot of time outside just observing

nature and checking out what's going on in the outside.

But they've never had the opportunity that you're

talking about of being put on a leash

and taught to actually walk around outside.

I mean, if you have a cadio, like for

people who have cadios, that's pretty amazing and maybe

you don't even really need to do it.

It really depends on everyone's cat.

I think the idea is that we a have to

recognize that many indoor cats are not getting enough enrichment

and then how can we kind of meet those needs?

And it doesn't necessarily mean everyone has to kind

of do it all, but I think I like

to kind of think about it too.

It's like doing a little bit of each.

So I'd like to do a little bit of

play, a little bit of food puzzle, a little

bit of training, a little bit of outside.

I wouldn't want everything to be all about outside,

because outside is there's also like it's not that

safe sometimes for people, there are more things outside.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

So I personally tried to limit my cats outdoor

because I know there are obviously depends on where

people walk, but if you're walking in a neighborhood

where there's dogs, possibly someone might have their dog

off leash, like in a lane way.

That's kind of something that has happened to

us a few times where someone just lets

their dog out into the laneway.

All they're doing is trying to get them in

the car and then the dog sees your cat

and scary things like that can happen.

It'd be very dangerous for both of them. Exactly.

So I like to do a little

bit of everything, but everyone's different.

Some people will take their

cats adventuring out and camping.

That's right, yeah.

So I think everyone's different.

And I don't like to tell people, do this, do

that, but I think the big overarching goal is, can

we find a way to give our cats more enrichment?

If you have a patio and they

love it out there, that's amazing.

I wish we could have a catio.

Yeah, I'm lucky that way.

And I think my cats are lucky too.

Plus, they have their own locked in the house

that they can fly up the stairs and hang

out up there and observe everything that's going on.

But I do have a question, because

I didn't really realize this until recently.

So I have historically fed my

cats nothing but dry foods.

And now my cat Forest has an illness

and he needs to gain some weight.

So the solution was to put him on a

wet cat food, a high calorie wet cat food.

Well, he has never eaten wet cat food in his life

and when I introduced it to him, he basically turned his

nose up at it and said, I have no idea what

that is and I am not going to eat it.

So could you use clicker training to help condition

your cat to transitioning to that wet food diet?

You could in a way.

This is very similar to like when someone says,

eat your veggies and then you get dessert.

So that principle does work with cats, but I don't

know if that would be my first approach because again,

I think the first approach in your situation would just

be to pick up the food so that it's not

out and available all the time.

But you might try that.

You could lick the spoon and then you

get some of the kibble that you love.

Like, it's worth a shot.

You could also definitely try different things,

I think, when it comes to food.

Are we doing a slow enough introductory process?

Are we trying to introduce the food that

they're already familiar with, like the same protein?

So it's actually not always that simple.

One thing that I do discourage people is going

and keep looking for food and trying different things.

Oh, my cat doesn't like this.

That's not the right approach.

Yeah, you could go broke doing that. Right.

And it gets very frustrating.

But it's good that you're on this journey

of switching out of dry food because I

definitely think that affects cats trainability as well.

Only feeding them dry food will affect their food motivation

and the dry food is really good for training.

So what I like to get people started on is

wet food meals, scheduled wet food meals and then handful

of their cats dry food for training or puzzles.

I love the idea.

I'm definitely going to try it and then

I'll have to report back to you and

to the listeners as to whether I'm successful.

Well, I do note that on your website at Catschool

Co, lots and lots of great articles about how to

train your cat and all kinds of questions that you

might have and plus some really cute cat pictures.

Yeah, we also have a really good Instagram

account where I try to show people doing

that's, where I try to feature students.

We're definitely like showing that

other cats can learn.

It's not just me and my cat,

thousands of cats can do this.

And we also have an online program if

people want more structure that has a roadmap

and they can ask questions and get support.

Yeah, with grades.

So it's grades one to five.

So I just noticed one of your

articles and I'm sure people want to.

Know the answer to this question is, can you

train your cat to talk with talking buttons?


That has exploded in popularity in the last few years.

And I know it's exciting because people

want to do more with their cats.

Can every cat learn to press a button? Yes.

Can every cat learn to press a button knowing that

it's like a treat or going for a walk? Yes.

When it starts to become ten buttons and they're all

close together and they have to kind of figure out

which buttons which I don't know the answer.

I think that the science isn't there

yet to say that they have.

I think a lot of people who are playing

this game with their cat are assuming things and

while it can be cute yeah, I think you

want to be careful what you're going to say.

Your cat knows.

My cat is saying that they are upset.

That's that's dangerous, in my opinion, because look

at their tail, look at their body language.

Those are their signals.

They already have all the signals

to tell us how they're feeling.

They don't need to press a button to

tell us that they're upset about something.

I can look at my cat tail,

I can look at his body language.

Is he not eating?

All those other things are going to tell me and those

to me are better signals than relying on a button when

we don't even know if the cat truly understands it. Yes.

So I think for again, going back to dog stuff,

a long time ago, we taught dogs to press a

bell when they wanted to go outside to make to

use the bathroom or to relieve themselves.

Is it really that different?

The dog would go and hit the bell or

press a button that they want to go outside.

That's nothing new.

So at some point these things get

repackaged and it makes it exciting again.

But I think it's not really that new.

We've always been able to kind of do that.

When they put it all together

inside by side, that's new.

But the science isn't really there.

Like, if we actually want to teach animals,

why aren't the buttons near the site where

we want them to be telling us something?

So, like, for example, with the bell,

it would go by the door.

So with the buttons, they're just kind of

laid right next to each other, which is

obviously going to make it harder.

So I don't know, I have a

lot of mixed feelings about it.

On one hand, I really like that people are

trying to communicate with their pets and stuff, but

it is a bit of the wild west with

these buttons, and if it's at the risk of

the animal getting frustrated, then I don't like it.

I feel like pretty much know what my pets

are thinking at any moment in time anyway, right?

Exactly. Yeah.

I've always felt that there's very

few things that I don't know.

And the other thing is, with answering questions

like that, there actually is some science on

some really cool stuff that they've done with

other animals, too, with clicker training.

So when they actually want to ask questions

to animals, like, do you prefer this?

The people at universities who study

animal behavior actually use clicker training.

So, for example, there was one study where they asked

horses, do you want to wear a blanket or not?

Would you prefer to wear a blanket or not?

And guess what?

They use clicker training to teach them.

There's a lot of science of people who have already done

so much stuff on this, and it's been done well.

And I don't know, like coming up with the buttons

when they aren't done properly and they're possibly causing frustration

and stuff, it's just not aligned with what we've kind

of studied as animal behaviors and stuff.

So I think that's the other part for me.

I wish more people would do clicker training because

that's been studied and we have examples of that

where if you want to do those advanced concepts

like asking your cat yes or no, guess what?

There's a way to do it.

Of course, only the most advanced trainers do it.

That's the irony, too, with buttons.

Everyone's like, oh, I can do this.

I wouldn't even day one, right? Yeah, day one.

My cat's talking.

But have I taught my cat yes or no?

Do you want to wear a blanket on your back?

I have, because these are very concepts that

are difficult and challenging, and I've been doing

training for 20 years, and it's hard.

It's not something that you just pick up like

that and say, oh, my cat's talking to me.

Well, then you probably still

learn something new every day.

Well, I'm taking a course right now that's

very like, yeah, that's all new for me.

Stuff I hadn't really considered or thought about.

It's a huge field.

Animal behavior is a huge, huge field.

We're always learning, and there's so much so

many little nuances to helping animals learn.

Okay, so I'm sure people also want

to know the answer to this question.

Can you train a kitten?

Oh, absolutely.

Kittens are so trainable.

So one of the things I recommend people start

with is getting your kitten, like socialization is the

most important thing because if your cat is fearful

of things, it makes training a lot harder.

So when you get a kitten, start

the socialization, socialization process off right away.

Introducing them to new experiences and stuff, obviously in

a slow way, not that they're going to be

that scared, but that they can notice it and

get treats and all that stuff.

But getting them used to the car and the carrier

and the vet and brushing and teeth brushing, those are

like, where you want to put your time in all

the things you say, I wish I would have done

that with my kitten, with my cat.

I wish my cat was better at going in the car.

I should have trained him when he was a kitten.

I wish my cat would let me brush his teeth. Okay.

I should have done that when he was a kitten.

All those things that you could see

yourself saying down the road would be

a great thing to introduce to kittens.

Yes, definitely.

Including giving them pills, right?

Yeah, giving them pills, all that stuff. Exactly.

Making it easier to do all

those things and take them places.

If you are a person who plans on moving

and traveling and stuff, which I think a lot

of people are doing more and no one wants

to leave their cat alone for weekends and stuff

like that, we recognizing they're really interactive animals.

They love their attention, and they need play and enrichment,

and then we want to go away on the weekend.

Okay, now what?

So getting them used to that, too.

And bringing them with you?

Yeah, bringing them with you.

Getting them used to their backpack and stuff to make

it easier for you to put them in the car

and take them on a three hour drive.

If you want to go somewhere, stay

in an RV, that kind of thing. Absolutely. All right.

Well, to our listeners, I hope you enjoyed

learning all of this information today about cat

school and how smart our cats are.

And Julie has been doing this, as she

said, a long time, but to the point

where now you're just working with cats, right?

Absolutely. Yeah.

There's so much work to do with

spreading the message of clicker training.

It'll be a lifetime of work.

That's excellent.

I mean, when you find something you're passionate about and

you can share it with people and you find a

receptive audience, that makes it all worth it, for sure.

Well, thank you so much, Julie, for joining us today.

And thank you to our listeners.

And if you would like to contact Julie or

get more information, you can go to catschool co.

And don't forget to find us on social

media at All My Children Wear Fur Coats.

And don't forget my favorite

motto until there are none.

Please adopt one, and we'll see you next time.

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Thank you for joining us on All My Children.

Wear fur coats with your host, Peggy Hoyt.

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